"We will never save civilisation as long as civilisation is our main object. We must learn to want something else even more."
—C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
I wasn't quite sure what to expect when I clicked the link, and I wasn't quite sure that I wanted to continue listening when I realized who and what it was--but I did.
What an irrefutably clear example of a preacher substituting personal preference for the Word of God, of misrepresentation of biblical and historical facts, and of a self-centered, strong-arm approach to "pastoral leadership." Very disturbing!
Wow - so many things wrong with his lecture. He talked about straw men while most of what he said was a straw man. He promised to quote Calvinists in the lecture series, but I expect selective quoting.
1. Why "Irrefutable"? I thought this pastor's disdain for Calvinism was fairly infamous.
2. Probably my favorite part was when he used the fact that he personally had never met a Baptist Calvinist until some time in the last 5 years as evidence that Calvinism is not a historical Baptist understanding of Scritpure. Apparently he has never read the London Baptist Confession.
3. You've got to admire anyone who can diparage Spurgeon, Edwards, and Knox in practically the same breath.
4. Maybe the Baptist kids he sends to Bible college that come back Presbyterian do so because the Presbyterianism they encounter there seems more scriputral that the Bapticity back home. Which brings me to . . .
5. Some will preach Calvinism hope to afflict it. What do I care? Calvinism (and by extension, Christ's Gospel) is preached. I'll bet he hurts his cause more than helps it with this series.
I listened to this last night before went to bed. So discouraging...quite a contrast with what Chris has posted over at his blog right now.
When this came up last year, I posted the following on my blog as part of my response (http://tinyurl.com/272xlrr) to the controversy. I'd like for people not to have a one-dimensional view of Pastor Sweatt, just as I wish he and other fundamentalists would not have a one-dimensional view of Calvinism or its adherents:
"I will always appreciate Pastor Sweatt for his gracious and selfless role he played in the creation of our new church plant. He allowed Andy Henderson to present his vision for a new church in the Hamilton Mill section of the northern Atlanta suburbs and then said that anyone from his church who wanted to go and help Pastor Henderson had his complete blessing and support. We started Grace Baptist Church with a good five or six families from Berean, one of those families being mine. Pastor Sweatt was more interested in building the kingdom of God than his own kingdom and thus serves as an excellent role model for other fundamentalist pastors in this regard."
1. I was being just a teensy bit tongue-in-cheek. And then the other side of it is that this sort of thing really is irrefutable, isn't it? Someone with the audacity to stand behind a pulpit and preach this sort of thing as truth, or someone with the naïvety to believe it, is not likely to be persuaded by a cool-headed conversation and, you know, facts.
2. Re: Historic Baptist confessions: It gets worse. Maybe not from this man, but I expect you'll be more personally disheartened over this sort of thing before too long.
4. Maybe I interpreted him badly. I guess I was thinking he was speaking hyperbolically, as if he defined the kids who came home Calvinists as "Presbyterians." Maybe it did really happen with some regularity though. In any case, it ought to be a lesson that people aren't inoculated against undesirable views when the vaccine is silly rhetoric.
Ok, so I'm listening to the second message in the series and he actuall quotes Acts 13:48 ("And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed...")in context to support the proposition that unregenerate man has a totally free will.
Which reminded me that he had quoted Acts 20:28 "Take heed...to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." in the first message.
18 comments:
I wasn't quite sure what to expect when I clicked the link, and I wasn't quite sure that I wanted to continue listening when I realized who and what it was--but I did.
What an irrefutably clear example of a preacher substituting personal preference for the Word of God, of misrepresentation of biblical and historical facts, and of a self-centered, strong-arm approach to "pastoral leadership." Very disturbing!
Wow - so many things wrong with his lecture. He talked about straw men while most of what he said was a straw man. He promised to quote Calvinists in the lecture series, but I expect selective quoting.
Ben, a few things:
1. Why "Irrefutable"? I thought this pastor's disdain for Calvinism was fairly infamous.
2. Probably my favorite part was when he used the fact that he personally had never met a Baptist Calvinist until some time in the last 5 years as evidence that Calvinism is not a historical Baptist understanding of Scritpure. Apparently he has never read the London Baptist Confession.
3. You've got to admire anyone who can diparage Spurgeon, Edwards, and Knox in practically the same breath.
4. Maybe the Baptist kids he sends to Bible college that come back Presbyterian do so because the Presbyterianism they encounter there seems more scriputral that the Bapticity back home. Which brings me to . . .
5. Some will preach Calvinism hope to afflict it. What do I care? Calvinism (and by extension, Christ's Gospel) is preached. I'll bet he hurts his cause more than helps it with this series.
Scripture.
See, I can spell it. :eyeroll:
I listened to this last night before went to bed. So discouraging...quite a contrast with what Chris has posted over at his blog right now.
When this came up last year, I posted the following on my blog as part of my response (http://tinyurl.com/272xlrr) to the controversy. I'd like for people not to have a one-dimensional view of Pastor Sweatt, just as I wish he and other fundamentalists would not have a one-dimensional view of Calvinism or its adherents:
"I will always appreciate Pastor Sweatt for his gracious and selfless role he played in the creation of our new church plant. He allowed Andy Henderson to present his vision for a new church in the Hamilton Mill section of the northern Atlanta suburbs and then said that anyone from his church who wanted to go and help Pastor Henderson had his complete blessing and support. We started Grace Baptist Church with a good five or six families from Berean, one of those families being mine. Pastor Sweatt was more interested in building the kingdom of God than his own kingdom and thus serves as an excellent role model for other fundamentalist pastors in this regard."
Dave, on your points . . .
1. I was being just a teensy bit tongue-in-cheek. And then the other side of it is that this sort of thing really is irrefutable, isn't it? Someone with the audacity to stand behind a pulpit and preach this sort of thing as truth, or someone with the naïvety to believe it, is not likely to be persuaded by a cool-headed conversation and, you know, facts.
2. Re: Historic Baptist confessions: It gets worse. Maybe not from this man, but I expect you'll be more personally disheartened over this sort of thing before too long.
4. Maybe I interpreted him badly. I guess I was thinking he was speaking hyperbolically, as if he defined the kids who came home Calvinists as "Presbyterians." Maybe it did really happen with some regularity though. In any case, it ought to be a lesson that people aren't inoculated against undesirable views when the vaccine is silly rhetoric.
5. Which is why I posted it.
Andy, didn't you and I used to argue about stuff? ;-)
Somebody say Amen.
What, you can use the help, too?
:^)
Wow. It's a bald power-play, appeal to authority other than Scripture, etc. "Continue in what I taught you because I taught you it." Unreal.
After hearing that I choose to run straight into the theological arms of John Piper...
Hey Anonymi,
Could y'all find some way of identifying yourselves so we can at least distinguish between all the secretive voices?
I'm the anonymous that left the comment about John Piper. Call me PDM.
That was depressing! Is this still the type of "voice" that dominates fundamentalism? I'm in a "country place" and therefore out of the "circle."
I think he would benefit from #2 on your list, Ben. Greatly. God have mercy.
Mark, I don't think it dominates, but it still seems welcome.
Ok, so I'm listening to the second message in the series and he actuall quotes Acts 13:48 ("And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed...")in context to support the proposition that unregenerate man has a totally free will.
Which reminded me that he had quoted Acts 20:28 "Take heed...to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." in the first message.
Sigh.
Another instant classic ripped, as it were, from the pages of Exegetical Fallacies.
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