I was a devoted Muslim when a man appeared to me in a dream. The man told me to go see a foreigner in town who is a follower of Jesus. The man in the dream told me to ask him about Jesus, and to believe what he told me. The Christian man told me all about Jesus, and now I am a follower of Jesus too.So what do you think. Is the guy delusional? Under demonic influence? Or is this sort of thing compatible with rigid cessationism? Hypothetically, of course . . .
Wednesday, December 03, 2008
A Question for the Hard-Line Cessationists
Hypothetically speaking, imagine that you knew a person who told you something along these lines:
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14 comments:
Ben, don't you know there's a special dispensation? Even in the typical cessationist's mindset, there's a caveat. God can reveal Himself generally in general-revelation dreams or through providential encounters, and He can even perform miraculous healings and help people understand other languages, if He wants to. Just not here. God is totally allowed to do this in other countries/cultures.
Technically speaking, the example you've given would be something other than a "spiritual gift" since it is not within the life of the church, right? Does that place it outside the standard cessationist debate?
More practically speaking, as one who is not a professing cessationist but remains a functional cessationist by and large, I need help in knowing how to live and serve with more reliance on and expectation from the Holy Spirit. So, for instance, do you have any pointers on "praying in the Spirit"?
I too am more of a functional cessationist, but I have to allow for this example. I know missionaries firsthand that have stories like this and even more amazing. They aren't rabid charismatics who don't care about Scripture. With enough of these reasoned rational examples from people who are Godly word-exalting people, we have to admit that God is at work in miraculous ways now.
I've reexamined the evidence and it sure seems that cessationist theology is supported more by pins and needles than rock solid biblical exegesis.
I'd be curious to learn more behind the story. Was the man more or less oblivious to Christianity before, or had he been pondering its merits to any even limited degree prior? Was the man who had the dream aware of the stranger's existence prior to the dream? Is what he describes as a dream something that could be explained by being preoccupied with inner conflict about his religion in some way?
It just seems there could potentially be more to a story like this than the little information we have. I would not be so quick to draw conclusions one way or the other here, though I would tend to not immediately accept the claim as being a direct vision.
1 John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
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I would conclude from this text that a certain kind of skepticism is right and good. Perhaps this story is just a fabrication by someone seeking attention. However, I would also conclude from this text that if there is in fact a supernatural vision that led him to Christ, it would not be that of demons.
Beyond that, if it is just a dream-- the processes of his brain in REM sleep or the like-- we wouldn't put that outside of the providence of God, would we? How would we know that it wasn't the Spirit, unless we are working with theological presuppositions that preclude such workings?
Joy,
Good point. Somebody needs to write a book on what God is and isn't totally allowed to do. ;-)
Bruce,
Although I think you're technically right, my experience has been that rigid cessationists often blur the lines between the cessation of the sign/revelatory gifts and the cessation of anything that could fit the broad category of signs or revelation, as such a dream would.
IOW, many cessationists *certainly* argue that all revelation has ceased.
Thanks, Ben, your reply was helpful. I guess I've been out of this particular debate too long, though I still feel like I need to grow in my understanding and, yes, experience of a practical theology of the Holy Spirit.
Greg,
I'm going to stick to this hypothetical for now. Though if you wanted to tease out how various factors might impact how you read the situation, I'd be interested to hear it.
My reaction to it is that I don't get theology from experience, but from Scripture. Even if they had this experience, I don't conform Scripture to fit it. We're sanctified by God's Word, not by experiences. Even if it is a valid experience, like Peter's on the Mt. of Transfiguration, those are submitted to actual Scripture.
Well, if a lovesick fiancee came and told you how a few nights before, she had a dream that her suitor was going to spring a proposal at this one restaurant, and it had come true just like she dreamed it would, you likely wouldn't conclude that God had divinely revealed it to her. There could be many possible reasons why she really did have a dream of one kind or another short of God providing direct revelation.
In a similar way, a man could have a strong pull of one sort or another- even one that manifested itself in some sort of dream- which is in one way or another an exercise of our human imagination- without God explicitly speaking. It doesn't mean God might not be using the man's imagination while asleep in some sort of providential way to draw the man to Himself as He often does with the imaginations of people as they are awake- like the people of Northampton listening to Edwards and imagining they were dangling over hell itself.
Kent,
That doesn't answer the question. In light of your theology, how would you respond to the hypothetical.
Greg,
For sake of the hypothetical, assume either that the person experiencing the vision either 1) had never heard of Jesus as anything other than a prophet, or 2) had never heard of the foreigner prior to the vision
Ok, Ben- what hypothetical evidence are we provided with that the man is producing the appropriate fruit? Seems like a good question top ask of one at CHBC... :D
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