tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post8229538569356899185..comments2024-01-12T09:37:16.515-06:00Comments on paleoevangelical: Open Questions for the Anti-Lordship FolksBenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07113808932788409800noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-83726877515284763942010-08-22T23:21:06.184-05:002010-08-22T23:21:06.184-05:00My rule of thumb is that when a thread degenerates...My rule of thumb is that when a thread degenerates into an argument over who's a sinner, who's converted, and who can wear a burqa, it's a good sign it's time for the thread to die. Rational, cool-headed interaction over issues seems improbable to emerge at this point. It's done. Thread closed.<br /><br />Let's play nice next time. That means argue all you want. Stick to the issues. And answer questions. Directly.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07113808932788409800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-56394027498984114392010-08-22T22:22:18.426-05:002010-08-22T22:22:18.426-05:00Look up, once again you read what you think I said...Look up, once again you read what you think I said instead of what I said. I have still been talking about a practicing MUSLIM. A burqa, walking into a mosque, and the direction you pray do not in and of themselves define being a muslim. Of course, <b> I NEVER SAID THAT.</b> Stay focused.<br /><br />Can a person be saved and be a practicing MUSLIM. In other words, can he believe in Jesus and still practice the ISLAMIC faith? My comment about praying toward Mecca would imply that praying toward Mecca was intentionally to honor the Islamic faith. Your understanding of the gospel is so skewed that a person actually NEVER has to stop believing in false gods to be saved. Jesus is one of many gods in a person's live. Jesus isn't Lord; he is buddy.<br /><br />This is completely about the "inside" of a person. If a man wants Jesus in addition to being a muslim, he does not understand salvation and is still lost. By nature he is still lost. LS is entirely about the inside of a person.<br /><br />Now, stop cutting and pasting Lou's emails as your own posts.<br /><br />/cracksfingers<br /><br />Now, about Solomon. Tell me when he was saved please. As an old man looking back on his life he penned the words:<br /><br />"The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person." Ecc 12:13<br /><br />So Solomon actually proves the LS model.<br /><br />Here is my question to you:<br /><br />Will you still perpetuate the error that Solomon disproves LS?<br /><br />Btw, you accusing me of sin is not the same thing as actually sinning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-76001909356595781372010-08-22T21:57:07.834-05:002010-08-22T21:57:07.834-05:00James
Your lack of repentance when confronted wit...James<br /><br />Your lack of repentance when confronted with your own sin really shows what is in your heart. Your religion goes as deep as paint. <br /><br />What are you going to do about it?Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-49860602912956196852010-08-22T21:46:36.592-05:002010-08-22T21:46:36.592-05:00"According to you, a person may be saved yet ..."According to you, a person may be saved yet still pray toward Mecca and give homage to a false god, a false view of Christ, and the rest. If that is what you actually believe, then I am even more sad than before."<br /><br />It's not just me, it's according to you as well. Solomon paid as much homage to false gods as you list above (except he had a right view of Christ) and you seem willing to count him among saved. <br /><br />1) Can a Christian arab woman wear a burka? Yes.<br /><br />2) Can a Christian arab man enter a mosque? Yes.<br /><br />3) Can a Christian arab kneel down and pray five times a day, even in the direction of Mecca? Yes, out of former habits they may even pray in the direction of Mecca. <br /><br />What determines a Christian is not what is going on on the outside of them, but rather what is going on on the inside of them.<br /><br />The answers to the above questions only deal with what is going on on the outside, but then again that is the only place you are looking.<br /><br />For the inside:<br /><br />1) If the Christian woman just out of Islam feels more comfortable in a burka, then she is free to wear one.<br /><br />2) If a formerly muslim arab were to enter a mosque, he does not leave Christ behind. There are many reasons a former muslim could enter a mosque that would appear to make him look like he is 'practicing' Islam however all real practice is of the heart. Likewise if you were to attend a funeral of a friend at an RC church. Entering the building does not you a practicing Muslim/Romanist make.<br /><br />3) The pattern and or direction of prayer does not define the individual's beliefs, but rather who it is that the person believes they are praying to. That is, in their mind who exactly are they attempting to commune with. I pray a bunch of times a day, does it matter if I happen to be praying in the direction of Mecca? Not at all, what matters is who am I attempting to speak with.Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-72502145062668484702010-08-22T21:25:42.320-05:002010-08-22T21:25:42.320-05:00Okay Look Up, you win. All LS are railers. That ...Okay Look Up, you win. All LS are railers. That alone disproves LS. Ben, give up now. You can't argue with this stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-50878006736759914942010-08-22T21:22:02.851-05:002010-08-22T21:22:02.851-05:00James
You can reject the premise all you want, ev...James<br /><br />You can reject the premise all you want, even your first post to me here was a railing accusation. Your defense of it shows you to be an unrepentant railer.Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-59858219162991965882010-08-22T19:48:56.224-05:002010-08-22T19:48:56.224-05:00Look Up, yes Solomon was saved. That you think th...Look Up, yes Solomon was saved. That you think that disproves LS is yet more evidence that you don't understand it.<br /><br />Let me be clear:<br /><br />I am a LS proponent and know Solomon was saved.<br /><br />AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH<br /><br />What to do now, what to do now<br /><br />AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-29218003052180008822010-08-22T19:35:23.489-05:002010-08-22T19:35:23.489-05:00Look Up, when asked if a person could be saved and...Look Up, when asked if a person could be saved and a practicing muslim, you seek to redefine what a practicing muslim means. Why must you do this? This is what I am talking about when reading what people actually say. A practicing muslim is not simply someone who believes in allah. He is someone who practices islam.<br /><br />According to you, a person may be saved yet still pray toward Mecca and give homage to a false god, a false view of Christ, and the rest. If that is what you actually believe, then I am even more sad than before.<br /><br />Your tag about LS being about have to again demonstrates that you just do not know what you are talking about. I wish you would take the time to be informed.<br /><br />What is truly amazing is that I specifically asked the question about a person who wanted to be saved but also wanted to cling to idols. That is the exact wording that Lou and Stegall spent 2 full blog posts trying to explain away. Now here you are saying the same thing I did. Stop with the cutesy gotcha phrases. Be willing to actually understand LS first. By doing so, you might be the person who in turn helps others. This could be a valuable service.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-90909830070563633552010-08-22T19:27:04.291-05:002010-08-22T19:27:04.291-05:00Look Up, first, I reject your premise. I wanted t...Look Up, first, I reject your premise. I wanted to discuss/debate the issue of conversion with Lou on his own site. You were one of the readers. Lou took it upon himself to edit my posts to not include things that needed to be in what I was saying. He would not post when I tried to even rephrase. He then just would not post anything I asked. He then lied and slandered about me and continues to do so (see his current posts). Honestly, I don't care if all three people who read his site think wrongly of me. I know the truth. Even here Lou will not face a challenge. He runs and hides behind his strawman articles. He will not engage but simply will tell people to go through all of his strawman articles to find an answer. I want to engage him but he will not. You might call it railing, but it isn't. He perverts the gospel and unfortunately those 3 people read him. Even on this thread you can see his cowardice. Run and hide and then do a drive by.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-27655073636942013392010-08-22T18:48:51.474-05:002010-08-22T18:48:51.474-05:00One open question for LS advocates:
Considering h...One open question for LS advocates:<br /><br /><b>Considering his persistant idolatry and associated anti-LS ways, is Solomon saved?</b>Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-11562733484066276012010-08-22T18:16:17.669-05:002010-08-22T18:16:17.669-05:00"Now, at what point would you say in your tim..."Now, at what point would you say in your timeline of conversion would a person have to quit being Muslim? Would it be before or after conversion or precisely at conversion?"<br /><br />He will quit 'believing in Allah' (I call this a practicing Muslim) the moment he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, HOWEVER, he may continue to visibly appear to be a Muslim including participating their ordinances for quite some time. IE how long before he posted the 95 theses against the RCC was Luther saved? <br /><br />Your question though reminds me of a lady that D.L. Moody was talking to who was concerned that she might have to give up the theatre if she were to become a Christian. Moody told her that she did not HAVE to give it up, but not to be surprised if she WANTED to. She came back some time later telling him that was exactly the case. She did not ever HAVE to give it up, but she found that there were better things that she could be doing.<br /><br />LS is based on HAVE TO's, as compared to WANT TO's.Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-56645992634113263362010-08-22T17:43:03.248-05:002010-08-22T17:43:03.248-05:00James/Ben/Others
Considering the following how do...James/Ben/Others<br /><br />Considering the following how do you see your raillery against those who oppose you fitting in to your repentance?<br /><br />“The Christian is ready in meekness to instruct them that oppose; but there is not bitterness in his zeal, being sensible that raillery and invective are dishonourable to the cause of truth and quite unsuitable in the mouth of a sinner, who owes all that distinguishes him from the vilest of men to the free grace of God.”Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-50996179114380983612010-08-22T17:36:00.329-05:002010-08-22T17:36:00.329-05:00Ben
You can save the grand set-up of the order of...Ben<br /><br />You can save the grand set-up of the order of 4,5,6, they are one simultaneous event.<br /><br />I can't comment on what you are seeing, for I am not looking with your eyes.<br /><br />John 1:9 involves ALL light everywhere down to the smallest of God-given thoughts, both to saved and unsaved.Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-49746462666642591882010-08-22T17:23:22.270-05:002010-08-22T17:23:22.270-05:00Ben
In your considering of Hos 2:16, what was you...Ben<br /><br />In your considering of Hos 2:16, what was your conclusion?Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-86284884729851366492010-08-22T17:21:38.745-05:002010-08-22T17:21:38.745-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-11257329277458388672010-08-22T16:37:35.228-05:002010-08-22T16:37:35.228-05:00Look up, I sincerely mean this: thank you for dire...Look up, I sincerely mean this: thank you for directly answering my question. That is what I tried to get others to do.<br /><br />Now, at what point would you say in your timeline of conversion would a person have to quit being Muslim? Would it be before or after conversion or precisely at conversion?<br /><br />By the way, I am a teetotaler. I have NEVER in my life tasted alchohol. I despise what alchohol is and what it does to people. My whole "Lion Crest Inn" thought is more of the Old English (Olde English) theme. The "ale" does not have to be alchololic. In my usage of the word, it isn't. So I hope you can bury that issue forever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-85929664867139354002010-08-22T16:12:45.854-05:002010-08-22T16:12:45.854-05:00Finally . . .
L.U.,
I'm trying to piece toge...Finally . . .<br /><br />L.U.,<br /><br />I'm trying to piece together your <i>ordo salutis</i>. Here's what I'm seeing:<br /><br />1. General enlightening (Rom 1)<br />2. Particular enlightening<br />3. "Non-LS repentance"<br />4. Faith<br />5. Conversion<br />6. Regeneration<br />7. "LS repentance"/sanctification<br /><br />Is that correct? I'm not intending to misrepresent you. Just trying to get it straight. Also, where does the <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1:9&version=ESV" rel="nofollow">John 1:9</a> "enlightening" fit in? Is it a third form of enlightening or identical to one of the other two?Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07113808932788409800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-81395386103271384262010-08-22T16:06:37.691-05:002010-08-22T16:06:37.691-05:00L.U.,
Knock off the red herrings. Whether ale is ...L.U.,<br /><br />Knock off the red herrings. Whether ale is present or not when the gospel is presented is utterly irrelevant to whether or not repentance is essential to the gospel and what repentance means.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07113808932788409800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-22403283307854078792010-08-22T16:02:46.341-05:002010-08-22T16:02:46.341-05:00L.U., yes, I've considered that verse many tim...L.U., yes, I've considered that verse many times.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07113808932788409800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-85829923600543176012010-08-22T15:59:56.898-05:002010-08-22T15:59:56.898-05:00Lou,
You put me in a difficult position. I have n...Lou,<br /><br />You put me in a difficult position. I have no desire to publicize the private communication you've sent to me explaining why you don't want to participate in this conversation here. But then you pop up and participate in the sort of rhetoric that's indistinguishable from what you claim to despise.<br /><br />If you like, I'll gladly delete both your condescending remarks and this comment from me.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07113808932788409800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-43884580342443730812010-08-22T15:28:43.311-05:002010-08-22T15:28:43.311-05:00James says:
“Let me ask you plainly this question:...James says:<br />“Let me ask you plainly this question:<br /><br />Can a person be saved and also be a practicing Muslim?”<br /><br />And the answer is........no.<br /><br />I will go you one further:<br /><br />Can a person preach the gospel while handing out the ale as this person proposes?<br /><br /><br />http://lioncrestinn.blogspot.com/<br /><br />Lion Crest Inn <br /><br />I double as Bard and Pulpiter of this tavern. I invite you to pull up a chair, enjoy a fresh piece of bread and a pint of ale, and come join us at the fire. We are talking theology and today we are talking about...Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-54587574185343340802010-08-22T12:21:42.780-05:002010-08-22T12:21:42.780-05:00Look Up, I commend you for not doing the mafia sty...Look Up, I commend you for not doing the mafia style hit and run tactics of other nonLordship people.<br /><br />As I tried to explain to you in the past and will try again here, what you think is Lordship salvation is NOT Lordship salvation.<br /><br />Lou Martuneac does not understand LS. The people who are LS time and again accurately note that he does not argue against their view. That you think he refutes it is very telling about your own understanding. You have got to learn to read what a person actually says instead of what you think they are trying to say.<br /><br />Let me ask you plainly this question:<br /><br />Can a person be saved and also be a practicing Muslim?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-24742061214372996622010-08-22T12:13:17.902-05:002010-08-22T12:13:17.902-05:00If anyone didn't know, Lou has a site with art...If anyone didn't know, Lou has a site with articles and he has written a book. I was surprised he linked to his site in one of his posts.<br /><br />Lou, the question I asked was not everything I was asking. According to your own beliefs, a person would not have to stop being a muslim to be a Christian.<br /><br />This is where you antiLordship folks must retreat to. You essentially cannot require ANYTHING for salvation, as that would be works. You cannot even require right theology about Christ and a turning from idols. In your twisted theology, people can still hold onto idols as condition to coming to Christ. This bastardization of the gospel is shameful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-14655396708619699232010-08-22T07:43:35.037-05:002010-08-22T07:43:35.037-05:00Ben:
I'm posting once only and for one reason...Ben:<br /><br />I'm posting once only and for one reason alone, which is to expose James Kime's incessant, unfounded whining. <br /><br />Anyone can read how a question he posted at my blog was answered by Pastor Tom Stegall fairly, comprehensively and in the context James asked it by reading, <br /><br /><i><b><a href="http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2010/08/unpacking-difference-between-gospel-of.html" rel="nofollow">The Difference Between the Gospel of Grace and Lordship Salvation</a></b></i><br /><br /><br />LMLou Martuneachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08683967904677815711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-18145011545921425732010-08-22T00:07:02.929-05:002010-08-22T00:07:02.929-05:00Ben, have you ever considered this verse?
Hos 2:1...Ben, have you ever considered this verse?<br /><br />Hos 2:16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi (My Husband); and shalt call me no more Baali (My Lord).Look uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16955173721902695881noreply@blogger.com