tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post115585012314084446..comments2024-01-12T09:37:16.515-06:00Comments on paleoevangelical: Some Food for Thought on the "Debtor's Ethic"Benhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07113808932788409800noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-1155925481420776732006-08-18T13:24:00.000-05:002006-08-18T13:24:00.000-05:00Friends,Thanks for your suggestions. But I think y...Friends,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your suggestions. But I think you're reading more into this quote than Piper actually says. Piper never (in this quote or the two related chapters) contends that our debtor status is wholly unrelated to our response to the work of the Spirit in sanctification. Certainly, for example, redemption speaks to Christ's ownership and lordship rights over us.<BR/><BR/>But that doesn't mean we can <I>repay</I> what we owe. That's Piper's point. He's saying not only that we can't but that we <I>shouldn't try</I> to repay. That's what nullifies grace. There are other motivations for love, worship, and obedience besides repayment.<BR/><BR/>I'd love to talk a little more about the specific texts you guys are referring to. Suffice it to say that I don't see them giving any indication that repayment of the debt is our object. To suggest that they do challenge us to repay our debt would raise some serious questions in my mind about your views of salvation by grace through faith alone. Perhaps I'll be able to add more later.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and I don't think the Romans and Philemon texts about debts between people are legitimate apples to apples comparisons with Christ's work of grace.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665765739805841971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-1155865274583305972006-08-17T20:41:00.000-05:002006-08-17T20:41:00.000-05:00Would this verse also apply?Romans 13:8 Owe no man...Would this verse also apply?<BR/><BR/>Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.<BR/><BR/>The snippet you quoted sounds a lot like Swindoll's <I>Grace Awakening</I> to me, but that could just be me.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>Don Johnson<BR/>Jer 33.3<BR/>my practice blog:<BR/>http://ebaptist.blogspot.com/Don Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03332212749734904541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-1155859794931774352006-08-17T19:09:00.000-05:002006-08-17T19:09:00.000-05:00I'll have to think on this, Ben, but it does seem ...I'll have to think on this, Ben, but it does seem like Scripture uses the goodness of God as motivation for our grateful, even obligatory response. For example:<BR/><BR/>* II Cor 8-9 urges the Corinthians to give by highlighting Christ's giving for them (8:9) and reminding them of God's unspeakable gift (9:15)<BR/><BR/>* Scripture commands us to live as those who have been bought with a price (I Cor. 6:20)<BR/><BR/>* My favorite example is Paul's <I>not</I> mentioning (wink, wink) to Philemon how he owes Paul his life (Philemon 19)<BR/><BR/>Am I missing Piper's point? Would it make my case stronger if I said that I received this post as a miraculous revelation??<BR/><BR/>(And be thankful I didn't say "girlish crush.)Chris Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14612238067365288834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7080491.post-1155854033437416002006-08-17T17:33:00.000-05:002006-08-17T17:33:00.000-05:00It seems that Paul thought the concept of a being ...It seems that Paul thought the concept of a being a debtor is a profitable understanding of how the believer is to respond to the inward work of the Holy Spirit. Consider:<BR/><BR/>Romans 8:12 "Therefore, brethren, <B>we are debtors</B>––not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.<BR/><BR/>Being a debtor to do right is not incompatible with gratitude! However, viewing our debt as a way to "pay back" God would, of course, be wrong.Thomas Prydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16488743668849144685noreply@blogger.com